Posts by Doug Mason

12

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures argues for more than one GOD

by smiddy in

gen.1:26 "and god went on to say "let us make man in our image according to our likeness.....etc,etc,.. the key words here are "us" and " our" ,he is including other life forms just like him in using plurals.. he did not say " i" will make man in "my" image ,using the singular vernacular.

the same is also noted in gen 3:22 "and jehovah god went on to say " here the man has become like one of " us".

again he is using the plural and not the singlar language clearly showing their were other life forms on an equal footing to him.. also satan via the serpent also knew the difference between good and bad before he tempted eve , showing he was on a par with jehovah god in knowing that fact along with the other gods in heaven.. another scripture that comes to mind is 1 cor.8:5 "........just as their are many gods and many lords,,,".

Doug Mason

Smiddy,

The name of the God in Genesis 1 is EL. He was the chief God who with his wife Asherah had 70 sons. This group was known as the Elohim. While EL was a kindly God, Yahweh was a minor fierce warrior. It is likely he originated in a southern neighbour of Israel/Judah.

Until the 6th century BCE neo-Babylonian period, the majority of the Henrews were polytheists. The Yahweh-alone party did not get their way until the nation went through the Captivity, and we now read their propaganda.

The creation myth at Genesis 2 (which was written earlier than the Genesis 1 account by a different group) uses the name YHWH. The group that wrote Genesis 1 did not use "YHWH" until it was revealed to Moses at the burning bush, but employed EL and Elohim.

Anyway, how does anyone really know what these gods said to one another at Genesis 1? Any eyewitnesses?

The writings attributed to Moses are pretty much myth from beginning to end. They are not literal history; they are religious stories with moral teachings.

Doug

11

Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

Doug Mason

The scrolls were written in Greek (from left to right) whereas the subsequently added paleo-Hebraic characters read from right to left. These ancient characters had long stopped being used.

Nowhere does the Watchtower ever follow that example. It never inserts the paleo-Hebraic characters into its texts. It uses a nonsensical word.

As for the New Testament texts, there is no example of Hebrew characters (HWHY) or their Greek equivalents. No one today has any idea what the initial writers wrote, whether in the OT or in the NT.

Reproducing texts in those days, which was needed given nature of the materials being used, required laborious copying by hand. Errors occurred during that process and at the same time the copying provided opportunities for deliberate amendments, often to suit later understandings (like the Watchtower does today).

Doug

11

Comparing the Septuagint to the Masoretic Text

by ILoveTTATT2 in

i am going to start a thread comparing the septuagint to the masoretic text.for those who do not know what the septuagint and the masoretic text are, here's an introduction on wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/septuagint.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/masoretic_text.

i think that, more than anything else, the fact that the septuagint and the masoretic text are so different, is what made me stop believing in the bible.. since the new testament writers quoted from the septuagint, not from the masoretic text, one would think that the septuagint should be in all the current bibles, but the case is that most bibles today use the masoretic text as the basis of their old testament.

Doug Mason

There were several versions of the LXX and the NT writers cited whichever version suited at that moment. And they were not beyond stretching the meaning of the text to suit the point they were making.

I do not know if Jesus used the Hebrew text or the Greek, although one would need to be conscious that he was an Aramaic speaker and he preached in a very small area which had experienced limited Greek influence. Jesus did not write anything nor did any of his immediate followers. The earliest written record, the 7 genuine letters of Paul, do not recount Jesus' life or preaching. The earliest Gospel (Mark) was written 40 years after Jesus' death (and borrowed material from Paul). Matthew was written some 15 years after Mark, while Luke was initially written about the same time buit the version we have dates from the early second century (along with Acts, which is also a second century document).

The MT is about 1000 years younger than the LXX. As Emanuel Tov (obviously a Jewish scholar) points out ("Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible"), the Jews have one Hebrew text because the Masoretes (about 1000 years ago) created their text and destroyed all variants. He says that in the process, the Masoretes set in concrete all of the errors.

It is estimated that more alterations have been intoduced to the NT text (deliberate and accidental) than there are words in the NT.

The use of ancient Hebrew characters for HWHY into the scrolls, characters that had long ago ceased being used is something that the WTS does not do. Instead, it adds - wherever it suits them - the Roman Catholic word which amalgamates YHWH with Adonai (the "J" is soft in Jehovah, as in "Yahwist"). The paleo-Hebrew characters were inserted a long long time after the scrolls were written - perhaps looking back into their history.

Prior to the 6th century neo-Babylonian era, the Hebrews were polytheistic, including the worship of YHWH's wife, whose name was Asherah. The monotheists did not win out until the return from Babylonian Captivity, and all that we read is their propaganda. 95% of the population was illiterate -- and remained so until very recent times. At least one of my grandparents was illiterate.

Doug

28

Why Judaism and the Torah ?

by Crazyguy in

so i have been studying early christianity a bit and noticed that before christianity really took off after 325 ce, there were a lot of religions.

gnostics teachings , belief in all sorts of different gods from egypt to greece .

the practice of emperor worship etc.

Doug Mason

Saename,

My understanding is that Rome was a very cosmopolitan society and that the Emperor was concerned at the disharmony within Christianity, including within Pauline Christianity. I suspect that although this sect was "selected", it was not the dominant form.

My position is that Constantine and Theodosius intervened to bring the internal Pauline disharmony to an end, and in the process imposed the positions held by one part of that sect (that's where Trinitarianism rears its head).

Regarding "shall". My first editor, and we are talking about 1971, refused anyone the use of the word "will". He said that something happened or it did not. Secondly, I read that the English and the Scots use "will" and "shall" with opposite meaning. (I think the reference was a book by Fowler. Was it an English Government style book? I wonder whether the Chicago Style Manual discusses "will" versus "shall". There are, of course, differences in the English language between the correct version - Australian - and all other versions.)

Out of all that, I use will to mean "I want to" and I use shall to mean "I am going to". Apologise for the quirks in my old mind.

I get annoyed when I hear someone say that "such-and-such prevented this from happening". In my mind, the word "from" is unnecessary.

I am sure that I will get comments and criticisms on my upcoming Study.

Doug

28

Why Judaism and the Torah ?

by Crazyguy in

so i have been studying early christianity a bit and noticed that before christianity really took off after 325 ce, there were a lot of religions.

gnostics teachings , belief in all sorts of different gods from egypt to greece .

the practice of emperor worship etc.

Doug Mason

Saename,

My desire is to show that the Watchtower lies. I am concerned at the human damage they cause through trashing families, risking lives because of their stance on the medical use of blood, and the mental damage they cause by forcing people to believe things they do not give full mental assent to. Apart from those factors, they can teach any doctrine they want to. It does not matter what a person believes, as long it causes no harm to themselves or others.

You have every right to disagree with my understanding of the 4th century experience of the Pauline Christians. I have no proof but I surmise that the power behind Constantine's selection of that group of Christians was deeply influenced by his mother, Helena.

While Constantine elevated the Paulines, the greater influence came with Theodosius in 381. But if you disagree, that is your right to do so, but when you disagree, please remain agreeable. And let me know what you believe.

I am fully aware that people do not agree with me and with likeminded people. I suspect that no two people agree 100% on every aspect of their belief system.

Later this week, I shall release my latest Study, "The Jesus-movements' First 200 Years". Being very conscious that reference to Bart Ehrman will colour the attitude of some to my Study, I make minimal reference to his work. Indeed, I provide some 800 direct quotations from about 50 books by several authors.

I genuinely look forward to seeing criticisms of that Study.

In the meantime, if you want an Ehrman-free analysis of the 4th century Christianity include the following, at least, in your analysis:

"AD 381: Heretics, Pagans and the Christian State", Charles Freeman.

"A New History of Early Christianity:, Charles Freeman.

"Jesus Wars: How Four Patriarchs, Three Queens, and Two Emperors Decided What Christians Would Believe for the Next 1,500 Years", Philip Jenkins

"The Rise of Christianity", W.H.C. Frend.

The books by Geza Vermes are always enlightening.

For those who wonder why Christianity took the Hebrew Scriptures, ask the question: "Why did Christianity accept the New Testament Scriptures, when they are Jewish writings by Jews (apart from Luke-Acts, and Mark) about Jews?"

Doug

18

I have no prblems with "new light"

by Doug Mason in

there is nothing wrong with accepting new ideas.

even apostle paul changed his mind when he "saw the light".

indeed, i hope to learn new things every day.

Doug Mason

There is nothing wrong with accepting new ideas. Even Apostle Paul changed his mind when he "saw the light". Indeed, I hope to learn new things every day. There is nothing wrong with real "new light".

But I have problems with the way that the Watchtower operates its "new light" system. Not that a light stays on for long. It switches on and off, like the twinkling lights on a Christmas tree or it cycles like traffic light signals. What was old is new again, until it becomes old, waiting for its turn to be switched on again for a while.

All of that could be a cause for ridicule, but there is a seriously sinister side, at the human level. Each time a new light is switched on, the organization demands lock-step acceptance. All minds have to switch over, whether a person agrees or not, only to be told later that the process has once again been amended - sometimes reverting to previous ideas.

What havoc does this play with people's minds? Having to mouth ideas that in their minds they cannot accept yet must on pain of eternal damnation (or loss of family) be forced to give allegiance to? What mental damage does this result in?

Doug

5

Wanted: Aid to bible Understanding (.pdf) & j.w. 2010 CD

by Composer2005 in

hello all,.

i am trying to obtain the following -

aid to bible understanding.pdf & watchtower cd 2010. can any help?.

Doug Mason

I have the Aid book. It is a 122 meg PDF, so I would need to send it to you via DropBox. This means you will need to email me so that I know your email address. Do not worry as I do not pass on personal information without being given written permission to do so.

You will find my email address at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/contact_me.html

Doug

22

I have proof Noah built the Ark just like God told him to

by KateWild in

.

Doug Mason

In the Biblical account, two distinct "Flood stories" are intertwined. For example, did Noah send a Raven or a dove? Or how many days did it rain?

http://www.jwstudies.com/Two_Flood_Stories.pdf

Doug

18

The Divine Son of God, God Incarnate, Lord, Redeemer, and Saviour of the World

by Doug Mason in

before jesus was born or even if he had never existed—another human being was already proclaimed son of god and, indeed, god incarnate within the same first common-era century and within the same mediterranean world.

in fact, almost all the sacred terms and solemn titles that we might think of as christian creations or even pauline inventions were already associated with caesar augustus, the first undisputed ruler of the roman empire, from 31 bce to 14 ce.. augustus was divine, son of god, god, and god from god.

he was lord, liberator, redeemer, and savior of the world—not just of italy or the mediterranean, mind you, but of the entire inhabited earth.

Doug Mason

Half Banana,

What interesting thoughts you present. The history of the Ancient Hebrews is one of borrowing myths, ideas, and gods from their neighbours. They did not live in isolation. YHWH was taken from their neighbours ("Yahweh and the Gods and Goddesses of Canaan", Day) along with the wife of EL, named Asherah ("When God was a Woman", Stone; "The Hebrew Goddess", Patai; "Did God Have a Wife?", Dever; etc).

As for books dealing with that Roman period: "Jesus Wars", Jenkins; "A New History of Early Christianity", Freeman; "AD 381", Freeman. But I am no aware of any books that precisely focus on listing all the antecedent pagan and Gnostic influences, although it is regularly pointed out that Paul's ideas were deeply influenced by his Hellenistic environment.

Doug

17

Change(s?) to revised nwt

by Saltheart Foamfollower in

i don't think this has been picked up anywhere yet.

the revised nwt released in 2013 is already out of date.

the second half of psalm 51:4 now reads "therefore, you are righteous when you speak, you are right in your judgment" in the online version where the printed version reads "so that you might prove righteous when you speak, and be right in your judgment".. fairly unimportant in itself, but i wonder what else has been changed without telling anyone..

Doug Mason

All of the text has undergone constant change forever. Over the millennia, there have been more changes to the NT text than there are words in it.

There is no universally accepted original text. There is no universally accepted canon of Scripture. (A scripture does not need a canon but a canon needs scripture.)

Doug